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My guest is Warren Nelson who is an Anglican minister, believe it or not in the Republic of Ireland. That is the southern part of Ireland. Warren. It's nice to have you in Australia. Tell me firstly, what's a nice Anglican boy like you doing in a place

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full of Catholics in the south of Ireland? Well, I think you have to take into consideration that uh the south of Ireland isn't uniformly Catholic that historically and always there has been a small, a very small minority of Anglicans and other Protestants in the Republic. Now

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you've come to Australia to work on a, on a special project research. Tell us about that. Yes, thanks very much. Uh I've been working at home first of all for nearly 18 months on a biography of TC Hammond. I'm sure some of your listeners will indeed

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know him from time past. He came out here in 1936 and was Principal of Moore College until 1953. But we haven't forgotten him in Ireland either and we are really interested. So, having done a good deal of research on the earlier part of his life in

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Ireland, I've come out here for two months to research the, the years that he worked out here. Have you been able to find, uh, when did the doctor him die? That was what in he died in 1961? So, have you been able to be in touch

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with people who worked in ministry, or? I guess a lot of his students are still sort of running around and preaching the word. Oh, yes. It's been relatively easy in Sydney because after all, his death is only 2627 years ago. And most people in their forties

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and fifties would have a good memory of him. And I have, yes, I have interviewed, oh, maybe 2030 people who would have very vivid memories of him. Warren. I need to tell people that you're the minister of a church in the beautiful romantic place called Tipperary.

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And my grandmother was born in County Cork and spoke very enthusiastically of that part of the world. Is it difficult for people who are non Catholics? We'll talk about northern Ireland in a moment and how you perceive the situation there? But is it difficult for non

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Catholics to live in the south of Ireland? Certainly not. Uh, we're very much at peace. It's a very integrated society. But then of course, it's a non threatened society because the Catholic majority is 96% and the small minority are very law abiding very good citizens and

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have fully accepted their position as a minority. So, no, it's a peaceful situation. Let me talk to you about the north of it because I, I guess that's the bit we see on TV, from time to time with, with terrible things happening. And uh as you

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and I were talking before, uh this interview, we were talking about the fact that I was a kid when I was 10. I was in Belfast in very quiet times, but now it's not so quiet. The issue isn't Catholic and Protestant in the north of Ireland.

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Is it? Nobody is out on the streets fighting about dogmatic theology. It's power, it's politics, it's cultural tribal, whatever you like. It just so happens that the breakdown in the two communities, the political breakdown is also the religious breakdown but rarely nobody is out fighting for

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religious beliefs. Does it have to do with, would it be too simple? A situation to say it has to do with two thirds of the people who live in the north of Ireland want British rule and the other third doesn't, I mean, is it as simple

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as that? Yes, for, for all intents and purposes, it is as simple as that. Uh It's unionist versus nationalist like you had in Cyprus and still have the people like Ian Paisley. I mean, I haven't heard much about him lately but certainly he seemed to be

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throwing not oil on troubled waters, but kerosene on little fires and it speaks with all the fervor of an evangelical evangelist. I mean, is that a helpful thing? Do you see him as a positive or negative influence in that place? Ian Paisley is a phenomenon that

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only Northern Ireland could produce centuries. Centuries of close identification between politics and religion has produced a situation where for him and many of his supporters, the political cause of Ulster is identical with the cause of Christ, we reject that. So, so he for him, it is

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a, a religious crusade. It it is and many of his followers would see it in those terms. And there's a an identification of, as I say, the cause of Ulster and the cause of Christ. But we wouldn't accept that identification. Christ's gospel isn't tied to any

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one political philosophy. Uh Warren, are you uh optimistic about some kind of uh you know, I said peaceful negotiated settlement in, in northern Ireland. I am but I have to be guarded about that. I wouldn't want to give a false impression that it's all going to

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be over next week. But I am basically optimistic. There's a sheer war weariness that's wearing people down. But apart from that, people are talking to one another who weren't talking for a long, long time. And the Anglo Irish agreement though like everything else, it can be

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criticized has brought a purpose into dialogue and discussion. So perhaps for the first time in the whole 20 sorry years of the recent troubles, I think there is light at the end of the tunnel Warren as a Protestant Irishman that's lived in the south. I mean,

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do you have ever have a dream for a United Ireland? I mean, is that part of what you would like to see happen? I mean, would it be better throwing in another kind of part question for the British to get the heck out and leave it

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to the Irish themselves. Mere geographical unity just doesn't count. But if the hearts and minds of all Irish people could be united, I think that would be the best thing for the advance of the gospel. That is, I'll put the second part of the question again.

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What about the role of the British? I mean, is that a help or a hindrance to that process of philosophical and spiritual unity in Ireland? I think those of us who live in Ireland realize that the British have a role at present up until such time

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as Irishmen will talk to Irishmen reasonably about a future settlement, but they are the pig in the middle. They are the police as it were until that time and not very loved at that because they're intruders, aren't they? I mean, there are other ways to put

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it, but for a lot of people, they are intruding, they're occupying. If you like uh the territory they are indeed. And I suppose in all honesty, they themselves don't really want to be there. But they're realistic. They have a commitment and a lot of us would

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worry a lot about what would happen if there was a, an over hasty withdrawal. Yeah. Just a quick question on the state of the church in Ireland trans denomination. Are people spiritually responsive to the Christian faith? There has been a great and really wonderful change in

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Irish society and I must really be saying that I'm talking about the South uh society has opened up. Therefore, it has opened up to the Bible and of course, that has resulted in people coming to faith in Christ. I'm involved in a small Bible school. But

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the fact that there even is a Bible school in the South of Ireland is symptomatic that there is a change and again to marry it with the political side. If the political pressure and tension were gone, I, I think we would see great improvements. Well, because

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half of my family or my mother's half came from Ireland. I, one of the things I love about the Irish and being with them is their sense of humor. I'm going to extract from you. Uh un auditioned an Irish joke. Have you got one? Well, it's

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very, it's very hard to come up with one because usually one is triggered off by something else. But perhaps one would come to mind. There were some South American professors over in Ireland on a cultural exchange and they were studying Irish culture and they were discussing

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the Manana philosophy that Latin countries have. You know, Manana, I'll put it off till tomorrow. And uh they discussed this with their Irish hosts. And then they said, have you anything like that? The Irish hosts thought for a moment and said, no, we have nothing as

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urgent as that. Reverend Warren Nelson from Ireland. Thanks for sharing with us today. Thank you very much, Jay, some from the new business, tourism and residential activities. The young Performers Awards which offer concert engagements for Australia's most outstanding young musicians were launched in Sydney today by

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their patron Hazel Hawke. The awards jointly presented by the ABC and the performing Arts Board of the Australia Council offer $75,000 in prize money. ABC now presents Mike mccann with news of sport. Geez. Well, Australia's remaining hope in the new South Wales Open tennis championships. Hanna

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Mandlikova has won through to the semi finals at White City. The number nine seeded Mandlikova beat the fourth seeded Mary Jo Fernandes of the United States 267663. And Manlio now goes on to play the top seed Martina Navratilova of the US in the semis of the

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$400,000 event. Earlier today, Navratilova had a 6 to 16 to 1 win over Patty Fendi but the number two seed Pam Schrier was beaten by Terry Phelps. The score 6 to 36 to 3 in the men's draw. Australia's been left without a representative with the elimination

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of Wally Maso who was beaten 7 to 56 to 4 by Bruno Oro of Yugoslavia. And in golf Curtis Strange has regained the lead in the second round of the day, Meadows Cup on the Gold Coast, the Americans seven under par after 12 holes and leads

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by one from Geoff Maggot and two from Terry Price who are both in the clubhouse price today. Shot an equal course record. 65 Mike mccann ABC Sport Sydney's weather, a few showers generally mild with sunny breaks, temperature in town at the moment, two below average at

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22 degrees ABC news. The time is five past five. This is Katherine Greiner. I'll be with you next week, mid morning from Monday to Thursday. And I hope that you'll be able to join me between 11 and one. We'll have some interesting people to speak to

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and some interesting music to listen to. I'm looking forward to it so I hope you'll join me next week on two bl between 11 and one summertime drive time on TB L the last round up and we're heading

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for it but a bang, not a whimper, some shakeouts from the Muirhead Royal Commission on Aboriginal deaths in custody. The latest on sailing, surf finance and science Plus Susie Euth on films. You should or maybe shouldn't be seeing a little Shakespearean fun and some great music

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between now and seven o'clock. And it's Tony Delroy with you at six past five when I should I stay. So inside applies to you back and she, you befriend you and

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yeah, tramping. The yellow brick road is Elton John at 9.5 past five. And this is BL for Friday the 13th. How's it been for you? It hasn't been too bad. Actually, here things lifted considerably after the

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wine tasting. I think Tim Blue has joined us for his regular look back in anger at the week in finance and Tim of course, is from Australian business. Well, what about these Commonwealth, Commonwealth Bank interest rates? They look as though they're edging up just a fraction

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more. True. True. Um Happily, it's not Friday the 13th in the sense that if you had a housing mortgage, you would be looking back in anger. It is simply their professional rates that they lend to everyone except housing borrowers, although it usually means bad things because

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in the end they've got to borrow and recoup their profits from not only commercial developers but from you and I it's an interesting figure. It makes the Commonwealth the highest charger, the most expensive source of funds, their overdraft rate. That is for sums roughly in excess

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of $100,000 has gone up a half a per cent which is quite a sharp jump to 17. Now you might think that's a bit rude. It is, but it only puts it up to the levels of say, may 8718 months ago. And because it's the commonwealth

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and one always expects it not to be totally profit driven like the private banks. Therefore, you might expect that if they are having a hard time and have to lift their rates, then the private banks will also do something similar. Just while we're talking about interest

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rates. It was interesting to see this week that the State Bank of Victoria finally lifted its housing rates from 14 and a quarter to 15 per cent. So nowhere in Australia now of any substance, can you get cheap housing finance? Right. What is the situation? Why

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is the commonwealth all of a sudden taking the lead on these interest rates? Is there something totally new? It's generally been Westpac Anz that have bitten the bullet? Well, there's a couple of schools of thought. One is you could be a cynic and suggest that they

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must be totally privately oriented and that they must be as profitable as possible. And that therefore to prove that they are good bankers, which is really what a banker cares about, you know, how his professional mates judge him. And that is a matter of how they

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perform professionally, what their profits are. And perhaps there is a feeling that they must be better or as good as their mates to take political heat off them to say that they are performing as well as any other private bank. It may also mean that of

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course, the better performing the Commonwealth Bank is the more easy it would be for the Commonwealth government to sell them and reduce an obligation on the Commonwealth government to provide capital, which is becoming increasingly necessary under this new capital adequacy age in which the banks are

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living. But other than that, it might just be a fact of life that they've lent all their money and they've got to get some more in. Sure. Well, Alan Bond has made a statement apparently on the future of lawn and he doesn't want it. That's what

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he says in the jargon. And I love this phrase. It's so euphemistic. They say we have no current intentions. Well, you know, current for how long? 30 seconds, I suspect he has always been interested in the city of London has been very sure that he's going

00:20:12.369 - 00:20:31.170

to bid for this huge British Lawn Road Trading House, which has extensive mining and resource interests in East Africa and is run by a figure as equally, if not more so than Alan Bond. This chap, tiny, tiny rowlands. He's tiny because he's about 6 ft four,

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I suspect and about the same from shoulder to shoulder. But of course, Alan Bond already has 21.5 per cent of loro share prices fall on. So Alan Bond's losing money at the moment in his shareholding on Loro. It'll be an interesting one to watch Bond certainly

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is becoming a multinational, isn't he? He's chopping at bits all over the place, going for the good bits. I mean, his interests now are um, well, loro and still considerable property interests in Hong Kong and telephone companies in Chile. What more need be said? Indeed. The

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Japanese share market. Quite incredible. It must be on the biggest bull run this century, I would think. Well, it is one, the conventional wisdom around the place was that once the emperor did finally die, that business in Japan would go into recession, that people would go

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into a period of mourning. Well, I think the western world's finally caught up with the mercantile side of Japan. And, and I think in Japanese terms, he died late on the Friday night, they had the Saturday and the Sunday off and they were back at the

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market on Monday in index terms, the Nikai index has gone up about 1000 points in the week. Now, that's 1000 on 30,000. That's roughly three per cent. I mean, a three per cent gain at any time is quite considerable in a week. And here he is,

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when it should have gone down, it's gone up. You know, people were expecting the sky to fall but it's been beaming in Tokyo. I think the word is probably, they're just so well prepared for everything that eventuates that nothing flusters them. I suspect they may have

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had an overreaction in the first place. They, they probably thought uh people have been constrained so far now that they are no longer constrained, they will go out and buy, this will be good for profits and this will be good for the share market. And hence

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the indexes have gone up. Very interesting move. New South Wales Investment Corporation, apparently it's been bought out by its management with a little bit of help from their friends. It has, it has this is the new South Wales equivalent of a similar Victorian body which has

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been getting a lot of, a lot of political criticism in Victoria because it lost about $110 million last year. I take it the New South Wales equivalent has done a bit better. They have indeed, I don't off the top of my head and know what their

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figures are, but they've certainly made a profit under its chief executive, Dr Fred Gil House. They really have been funding small fledgling companies into making investments in, in lesser ranked New South Wales companies. They've also been responsible for bringing some Japanese investment funds into New South

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Wales, small companies and something like seven of their senior executives have borrowed about $60 million from the Bank of New Zealand and bought the New South Wales Investment Corporation. It's interesting first that they have done a management buy out and that secondly, it is a sale

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by the State of New South Wales in contrast to their non sale a few weeks ago of the State Bank, which probably makes more money, but probably because it makes more money. The state of New South Wales wants to hang on to that income stream. Well,

00:23:46.569 - 00:24:01.989

Tim, of course, the labor party sold the grier government as New South Wales Inc, but they have been anything but I would have thought un inking themselves left. Right and center. Exactly. But do you see any other moves in the market for the grier privatization plan?

00:24:03.439 - 00:24:23.060

Well, they talk of corporatizing, they talk of privatizing but the two big institutions which they could sell, of course, are the New South Wales, Gio and the State bank, uh financial institutions, technically, or most of the big banks have all those functions jammed together and I

00:24:23.069 - 00:24:37.540

know that there's a lot of toing and froing and shoving around as to who merges with whom and under what circumstances. I mean, there's a great plethora of Shuffles and potential Shuffles. One could say that perhaps the State Bank of New South Wales should join forces

00:24:37.550 - 00:24:51.949

with Bank, New Zealand or even Bank New Zealand, which was on the market until a few weeks ago. Should by the Gio or should the Gio take over the State Bank? But of course, once you did that you'd have a spare set of executives running around

00:24:51.959 - 00:25:08.180

with nothing to do. And I think that's not to be overlooked. Yes, I think that is what is inhibiting union amalgamation a fair bit, you know. Yeah. What happens once the union goes? Yes. But that's an interesting move that obviously the management of the investment corporation

00:25:08.189 - 00:25:22.319

have got so much, well, confidence in the, in the corporation as it stands that they're prepared to put their own money into it. Yes. Well, I don't know how much it was. Theirs. Certainly, they borrowed 60 million. Obviously, they had a good story to put to

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the Bank New Zealand, which is quite entrepreneurial in Australia and its Australian operations. In fact, Bank New Zealand in Australia is probably a fair contributor to Bank New Zealand's overall profit program headed by Liz Scott chemist in in Australia. But uh the valuations were done by

00:25:45.319 - 00:26:05.369

an independent valuer Rothschild. And I think if there were other assets that the state of New South Wales could sell, it probably would because after all, it's got something like $26 billion of debt on which if you calculated 14 per cent cost of borrowing costs them

00:26:05.380 - 00:26:20.989

a billion a year just to pay the interest bill. Don't even talk to me about it. Sounding a bit like my own personal accounts. Thank you very much, Tim Blue of Australian business. And that is the week in finance. Thanks, mate. 18.5 minutes past five. And

00:26:21.000 - 00:26:37.449

this is Bl Drive Tony Delroy with you until seven o'clock tonight. And of course, Frank Crook returns Monday four through seven o'clock. Well, let's now turn our minds to the weekend in sport and there's a lot of events coming up and Mike mccann will be in

00:26:37.459 - 00:26:50.500

charge of the sports desk this weekend, Mike, the New South Wales Tennis open. Certainly reaching an interesting stage at White City. Uh, we're getting down to the business end of the tournament. There's not too many Australians left, I think one isn't there. You're dead. Right. Tony,

00:26:50.510 - 00:27:04.920

there's one left and, uh, she's an adopted Australian, I guess we, we can't sort of decide who's Australian and who's not Australian. But Hanna Manlio, she put up a great performance today against Mary Jo Fernandes. She lost the first set 62, but then she came back

00:27:04.930 - 00:27:20.109

to win the second in a tie break and then the decider. So Hannah Mandlikova, who has really been struggling for form since uh well, since she arrived back in Australia after something of a layoff has uh really struck good form in that quarter final today and

00:27:20.119 - 00:27:35.150

she's through to the semi finals, but the bad news is that she'll be facing the top seed Martina Navratilova. So quarterfinal day today, semi final day tomorrow in both men and women and uh we'll be having a full coverage uh certainly up until around about 230

00:27:35.160 - 00:27:47.550

when we get, we're going to Melbourne for the cricket and uh our commentators out there, Peter Longman Bray and Bill Bowie bringing you ball by ball, description of the new South Wales open tomorrow. I believe Wally Masso got the bounce today. He was the last male

00:27:47.560 - 00:28:04.119

in the Australian contingent. Yes. Wally Masso, the number seven seed. He came up against a pretty well unknown Yugoslav player. In fact, Bruno Oro claims he's about the poorest player on the international circuit. He's earned something like $120,000. Which sounds all right. But that's over six

00:28:04.130 - 00:28:19.140

years if you don't mind. And that includes all his travel and, and uh accommodation costs. The good thing about Bruno Oro. So the thing I like about it is that despite his financial instability, shall we say he's staying at the Hilton? So he doesn't mess around,

00:28:19.150 - 00:28:37.469

but he uh he improved his bank account today. He beat the seven seeded Masseur 7564. So out went Wally and that left as we mentioned, just Hannah Mandla over in the women's draw. But how long she lasts? Well, a big test tomorrow against indeed Mike 60,000

00:28:37.479 - 00:28:53.099

plus. They're predicting in Melbourne tomorrow for the first World Series Cup cricket final at the MCG. And of course, uh hear it here on TB L. Absolutely. That's uh from 25 past two, we'll be crossing down there for the first of those World Series Cup finals,

00:28:53.109 - 00:29:06.859

the first of possibly three. If it's all over in two, of course, the third won't be required next Wednesday. But gee whiz the Australians are in with a big chance. Now, Alan border said during the week that he believed Australia was a 5050 proposition. Come the

00:29:06.869 - 00:29:25.163

finals. I tend to think that even border now, silently thinking that perhaps the Australians will start favorites. They've played the West Indies in the final series three times since about 8182. Each time the windies have won. But the Australians with a really good one day record.

00:29:25.173 - 00:29:36.524

Now, since the start of that World Cup campaign in 87 they've won something like 20 out of their last 26 and they are playing the one day game very well and they'll give the windy a big run for their money. They are, they seem to have

00:29:36.534 - 00:29:51.978

come good since that disastrous match in Perth against Pakistan where they looked as though they were, you know, literally an under 17 side from Bourke. Yes, it wasn't a good performance at all, but that really was about their only really bad game in the series at

00:29:51.988 - 00:30:06.661

that stage. Australia had won one and lost two or three. But as Bob Simpson pointed out last night after the win that Australia very nearly won its first match of the tournament. You'll recall against the West Indies here at the SCG. That was a very good

00:30:06.671 - 00:30:19.281

performance. There was only one shot in it. Absolutely. It went right to the wide of the last over. In fact, the last ball, if I recall, Craig mcdermott needed to get a couple off the last or one off the last to win. It and they went

00:30:19.291 - 00:30:34.576

straight to Viv Richards. Exactly. So heavily imprinted in my mind that shot. Yeah, that was a big performance that by Australia. And, you know, they played pretty well in the stages, but that was a bad game in Pakistan. They had a meeting. I think a few

00:30:34.586 - 00:30:51.306

butts were kicked and the Australians have come out fighting ever since and said, apparently Bob Simpson gave him a real dressing down after that match in Perth. I think if we could bottle it, we could probably join the space race. Yes, he's a very strict disciplinarian

00:30:51.316 - 00:31:05.020

is Bob Simpson. Yes, he's keeping pretty quiet about what was said, but I think it would have been interesting but a great uh match coming up tomorrow and let's hope. Uh Well, actually, I'm, I must confess, I'm hoping the windy will win what? I'm hoping that

00:31:05.030 - 00:31:20.079

look, look, it's, it's, this is almost insurrection. No, I'm hoping the windies win that one, but Australia win the series because uh Australia play the second match against the windy here at the SCG on Monday. Now, I'm not working on that match, but if it goes

00:31:20.089 - 00:31:32.280

to a third, I'll be doing a third on Wednesday night. So from a purely selfish point of view, I'm hoping we get to the third match and that Australia wins it next Wednesday here. That would be a heart stopper. I think that one because I think

00:31:32.290 - 00:31:52.500

on the SCG wicket Australia has a big chance MCG, 5050 type opportunity. But obviously the spin worked there yesterday and it was, you know, delight to see that Peter Taylor snatched, I think, three wickets and Alan Border, I think three. Yes. The Australians love that spinning

00:31:52.510 - 00:32:09.250

SCG track. And uh the, the performance, the record on the SCG is quite remarkable. Australia's met the West Indies in something like uh 48 very close to 51 day internationals. Now, the West Indies have won 34 of those and Australia now 14. So the record heavily

00:32:09.380 - 00:32:23.140

in the West Indies favor but on the SCG, they've met now 16 times and Australia's won 10 of them. As a matter of fact, I wonder if we could organize for the entire test series in all the one day as to be played at the SCG.

00:32:23.150 - 00:32:36.319

I think we're going to have to consider this very, very strongly. David Morrow suggested that last night, but I think he was a little bit concerned about the state of the Melbourne switchboards after having announced, I think Melbourne in Perth, I don't think they were all

00:32:36.329 - 00:32:52.199

too, not to mention Brisbane and Hobart, but I don't think they were too pleased about that, but I got them. Tougher out Mike mccann. Thanks very much, big weekend of sport. Enjoy. Thank you very much, Tony. It's 25 past five. This is BL Drive until seven,

00:32:54.390 - 00:35:23.909

rock and roll music and love to get the chance to about that. Yeah, they, ok. Music, I could really get it on that scene. I

00:35:23.919 - 00:35:41.280

dig rock and roll music. Peter Paul and Mary giving a bit of curry to every other group that was round in 1967 27.5 minutes past five on drive time for Friday the 13th of January 89. Well, a sad day in Canberra this afternoon with the funeral

00:35:41.290 - 00:35:57.649

of assistant commissioner of the Australian Federal Police. Colin Winchester. Mr Winchester was gunned down outside his house in the suburb of Deakin in Canberra. On Tuesday night, an intensive search for the person who killed him is still underway. Today, the deputy Commissioner Mr Johnson of the

00:35:57.659 - 00:36:16.919

Australian Federal Police had this to say about his friend and his colleague, Colin Stanley Winchester was appointed as a constable in the Australian capital territory police force on the 27th of April 1962. For the following 27 years, he served the people of Canberra and later of

00:36:16.929 - 00:36:34.899

Australia as a professional police officer dedicated to the maintenance of law and order in our community and the development of policing in the Australian capital territory and at the federal level as a body worthy of the trust and confidence of all Australians. Early in Collin's career,

00:36:34.909 - 00:36:53.649

he was one of the original members of the accident investigation squad with his colleagues. He helped to develop that particular unit into the first class squad that it is today in 1966 Colin was appointed to the criminal investigation branch as a detective. And in 1969 completed

00:36:53.659 - 00:37:12.750

the criminal investigation course with the Victoria Police in Melbourne. His career as a detective was outstanding, numerous serious crimes were solved because of his dedication and his understanding of the sum of the serious problems confronting ordinary people, whether they were the victims of crime or the

00:37:12.760 - 00:37:33.590

offenders themselves. In later years, with the Australian capital territory, police Colin headed up the recruiting and recruitment and training division with responsibility for the training of all police recruits as well as the provision of inservice training for all members of the force. In 1979 the Australian

00:37:33.600 - 00:37:54.010

Federal Police was formed and Colin was posted to the crime department as the officer in charge a division in that capacity, he was responsible for the co ordination of criminal investigations. Well, of course, I did you know the party and its government so called, have to

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approve policy of this kind. It so happens that President Kunda in Zambia is I believe enlightened in the AIDS context as well as many other contexts. He's a well recognized front line state leader, so to speak in many senses of the word and he's got a

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lot of credibility for good reason. Now, in the AIDS field, he's been a leader amongst leaders, we believe in Zambia in that he's been courageous enough wise enough to speak up about AIDS, particularly at the end of 1987 uh he talked about the fact publicly uh

00:38:33.219 - 00:38:50.260

um outside of the country about the fact that his son had died of A I DS. And it had given him an insight into this problem such that he could then begin to appreciate the implications on families and communities within his own country for the future,

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the long term future. And so he has given maximum support to being open and expressive about AIDS within his own country so that some sort of long term strategies could emerge. And he sees it very much in terms of behavioral change. So I think that that

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is a long term, very sensible, constructive way to go. Let's turn to the, to the west for the moment and, and uh implications that can be drawn out of your experience. Um In the West, there's a particular uh strand of moral debate about AIDS and its

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association with homosexuality that in some ways, constantly colors the issue and any ability to discuss the issue. Are there any observations you'd make about the way the debate needs to focus? We've got to get beyond being threatened by the existence of a group into sort of

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seeing that group as part of the whole. And the only way we can do that with AIDS is to get to where the action is to live it with people and then you'll get beyond your own fears. I think as a church into dealing with the

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real issues. And then we'll be, if you like standing alongside other communities playing our part and if you like, there will be a natural, inherent credibility that will be built up. And then I think we'll be doing what we're meant to be doing, which is to

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witness of Christ and, and, and God expressed in Christ to the community as a whole. And I don't think we should be diverted by the fact of AIDS to start saying yes, we were right all the time. I don't think that's a constructive approach. We may

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have been in some senses, but who cares? I think we're dealing with a huge international global issue which could have enormous implications already does for countries like Australia, but it could have those implications in the future. And I think the time will come when we will

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see in Australia, the fact that we have to move beyond what I would call um reactive emotional expressions to past lifestyle with even an unforgiving kind of attitude toward that person's future lifestyle. That's I think inappropriate to what we would call a Christian attitude. AIDS, I

00:41:05.780 - 00:41:26.889

think can divide communities because of misunderstanding or it can bring them together. Our experience at Chikara Hospital in Zambia is that we have a tremendously natural, spontaneous experience of people coming together because of AIDS. It's because we have a positive aggressive approach to management. Sure, but

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there's a beautiful sense of ministry and of pastoral ministry to people that is coming through the management program, not only the level of the individual patient but the sense of integration between government and non government. The Christian church is there. We're not having to fight to

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be heard. We're there because we care and the principles which we represent are coming through because of that salvation. Army captain Ian Campbell, chairman of the Churches, Medical Association of Zambia on AIDS. And that's all in Kronos for today. Production assistance from Faria Tia technical production

00:42:06.159 - 00:43:11.379

by Andrew Clark. Nash. I'm John Cleary back same time next week with another look at religious issues behind the news in Kronos. Hi, I'm jazz hall from Radio National's round Midnight where we played the best of reggae, blues and African contemporary music. It's our first birthday

00:43:11.389 - 00:43:51.110

and we're radio national. It's 715. How can we love and worship God and pay tax to Caesar? At the same time, these Romans say their God is Caesar. How can we pay tribute to a pagan God? Another of your trick questions?

00:43:51.120 - 00:44:09.929

No, no, no, I show me. All right. Then uh show me a coin. No, uh no one of the silver Roman ones. Yeah, thanks. Now, whose image is this? Whose head is on this coin? Caesar's, of course, then here's what you do give to Caesar. The

00:44:09.939 - 00:44:30.250

things that are Caesar's give to God, the things that are God's well answered master. Now, the other one's having a go. No, no, of course. I agree. There's a whole stack of petty laws that do good to nobody, but some of the laws are of value.

00:44:30.260 - 00:44:50.330

Yes. Yes, of course. Well, then master tell us which, in fact, tell us the most important one. The first commandment of all love God, love him with all your heart and soul, your mind and your strength. That's the first and I know what you're going to

00:44:50.340 - 00:45:10.090

ask next. So here's the second. Love your neighbor, love Him as you do yourself. These two love God and love your neighbor. There are no commandments greater than these and all the rest of our laws hang on them. Isn't that so, uh it is master. You

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speak truly and well to love God and to love your neighbor. These are more than all the sacrifices and offerings in the world. You also speak truly and well, friend, I tell you this. You are not far from the kingdom of God. Well, Varus, all I

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need now is your signature and the high priest's robes are yours for another week. The seals on the caskets were all intact. I take it all very proper Deus. Thank you. Uh How is the governor? Not in the best of moods as usual at this time,

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by the way, virus. He's come up with an idea. It would be tactful if Kas could accept it. He wants to please the mob by releasing a prisoner for the festival, one of the three waiting for crucifixion. How do you think the idea would go down?

00:46:07.689 - 00:46:24.850

Well, I'll, uh, I'll put it to Kas. He might not be too keen to release a rebel, uh, particularly as we're hoping to arrest another one. A Galilean. It might be a last minute sentencing job, the execution to be got over before Sabbath. I'll see what

00:46:24.860 - 00:46:43.149

I can do to smooth the way though. The governor will be grateful for your vigilance. Thank you. And uh by the way that uh that wine you admired so much, last time you were here, de Sir, I managed to find some more th 10 bottles. How

00:46:43.159 - 00:47:05.820

very generous of you. Their harbor. The president of Sydney's Warringah Shire defends steep rate increases and Darren Mercer wins the Australian Ironman title for the third year in succession. Although it's only been going for about two hours. Organizers of Sydney's Clean Up the Harbor Day have

00:47:05.830 - 00:47:24.254

already called it a great success. Phil Kalos reports. Their call for volunteer cleaners brought an overwhelming response. Families, divers, the navy and people serving community service periods are currently on beaches right around the harbor. Even before the set kick off time of 11 o'clock, some smaller

00:47:24.264 - 00:47:40.165

beaches were already half cleaned. The concept was the idea of Ian Cannon who says the whole project has become bigger than he expected. We've got 300 supervisors, we believe we're going to have 100,000 people on the Harbor today. When you put this together. Do you ever

00:47:40.175 - 00:47:55.350

dream? It'll be as big as this. I didn't have any idea at all. I thought maybe we got 150 people just, you know, let's get a couple of tons of garbage. Now, if we get 100,000 boy, the president of Sydney's Warringah Shire, Ted Jackson says pensioners

00:47:55.360 - 00:48:13.189

in the area shouldn't have to suffer hardship despite steep rate increases. this week, some residents of the exclusive areas of Dy Mona Vale and Palm Beach have been served with increases of $1000. 1 local councilor is heading a move from the council's jurisdiction but the Shire

00:48:13.199 - 00:48:29.590

president, Mr Jackson says the increases are necessary for his council to be able to operate. He also says there are safeguards for pensioners and others who may suffer hardship under the increase. Um There is a provision in the act and that at the end of the

00:48:30.110 - 00:48:47.709

ratepayers care to read the brochure that went with it and to read the article that I uh in my shire scene which I publish every Saturday in the manly daily. They will see that there is provision for those who suffer hardship to make application to council.

00:48:48.129 - 00:49:05.719

In the case of pensioners, the government this year increased the rebate to $250. So that you know, I mean there is a fair amount of provision made a Sydney man is in a serious condition in hospital after being attacked with a meat cleaver. Overnight police say

00:49:05.729 - 00:49:20.270

the 19 year old victim was struck with a cleaver after arguing with a man outside a club in Cabramatta in Sydney's South West. He sustained injuries to the back of the neck and was admitted to Liverpool Hospital. Police say his attacker escaped in a car with

00:49:20.280 - 00:49:35.919

a Victorian number plate. A young motorist knocked down by a hit and run driver as he was being questioned by police at the roadside remains in a critical condition. The youth who was admitted to Westmead hospital last night suffered a fractured skull and a broken leg.

00:49:36.010 - 00:49:52.780

Two police officers had stopped the youth in Marsden street Parramatta and were questioning him alongside his vehicle when another car ran down the youth. A search is continuing for the hit and run driver. A section of the Illawarra line between Sydney and Wollongong remains closed at

00:49:52.790 - 00:50:10.260

Helensburgh because of the threat of a big boulder collapsing. Railway gangs reported early today. The boulder was hanging precariously above the track to Sydney. The sr a operations control room in Sydney says although only one track is now being used, trains are running on time. The

00:50:10.270 - 00:50:26.820

sr a plans to remove the threatening boulder possibly with explosives during the off peak period. Tonight, a man is in a serious but stable condition after being stabbed at a party at Rooty Hill in Sydney's Outer West. Police at the youth aged 19 became involved in

00:50:26.830 - 00:50:42.810

an argument with another male guest who produced a long bladed knife and stabbed him in the stomach. The youth was later admitted to the Mount Druitt Hospital champion Australian Iron Man Darren Mercer has easily retained his title before a crowd of thousands at Sydney's Manly Beach,

00:50:42.959 - 00:51:01.274

Darren from Tharoor near Wollongong won the final and for the third year in succession, won the National Iron Man Grand Prix Award with prize money to $20,000. He completed the 42 kilometer course of swimming ski paddling and running in three hours and 38 minutes. John Robinson

00:51:01.284 - 00:51:17.379

from Queensland came second, Sean Kenny from Collaro. 3rd and 4th came. The winner's brother Dean Mercer. New South Wales is making steady progress in the Sheffield Shield cricket match at the Adelaide Oval. A short time ago, New South Wales was none for 90 with Dyson on

00:51:17.389 - 00:51:34.830

47 and Taylor on 34 South Australia made 506 in its first innings. Now, the weather details for Sydney, mild to warm humid days, lengthy sunny periods like to moderate east and northeast winds at the moment in Sydney, 25 degrees one above normal for New South Wales

00:51:34.840 - 00:51:51.500

isolated clearing showers on the far north coast cloud developing on the state's western border. Mild to warm, humid days on the seaboard with sunny areas and light to moderate southeast to northeast winds slowly freshening very warm to hot over the interior ABC news. The time is

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20 minutes to one. This is report from Asia. I'm John West. This week, Japan mourns Emperor Hirohito. India executes two Sikhs for the assassination of Indira Gandhi. China suffers for its treatment of foreign students. Kuia celebrates the anniversary of

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the overthrow of pol pot, embarrassed or pleased as punch, but it's ok if you're embarrassed because you're in great company. Cos I'll bet that about 80% of last Saturday night's resolutions right across the country have been broken already. It's embarrassing, isn't it? But I don't know

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about you, but I gave up my New Year resolutions years ago. I guess I just got sick of not keeping them. So instead I make weekly ones and sometimes daily ones. I guess I realize that my memory and my willpower aren't so crash hot. Maybe that's

00:53:11.340 - 00:53:27.689

why Paul the Apostle kept repeating himself because there are lots of things that he said over and over and over again. Maybe his memory and willpower weren't so crash hot either. And just one of the things that he said was about the things that we delight

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in the things that grab our motivations and fill our goals. He said, delight in the Lord. I don't mind saying it again. Delight in the Lord. Maybe today right now you could make that resolution. Diane Lucas for the churches of Christ two ch is the 1170.

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It's 10 to 2. I blessed well, how ends out right. Right. Live the

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And you?